How does a person Enter the Kingdom o... (20 views) Subscribe   
  From:  David (DavidABrown)    4/2/2002 5:40 pm  
To:  ALL   Poll (1 of 18)  
 
  361.1  
 
  How does a person Enter the Kingdom of God? 
We become Children of God through Adoption     
3 votes (17%) 
We become Children of God through a New Spiritual Birth   
15 votes (83%) 
  
18 people have voted so far

Your vote was We become Children of God through a New Spiritual Birth on 4/2/2002 5:41 pm  

  
 
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    4/2/2002 5:46 pm  
To:  ALL   Poll (2 of 18)  
 
  361.2 in reply to 361.1  
 
Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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From:  David (DavidABrown)    4/2/2002 5:50 pm  
To:  ALL    
 
    
 
Born Again 

Gennao (1080) from Genos kind; reproduce in same kind, regenerate, give birth

Anothen (509) Ano above; above, anew, again; Born from Above

Verses - Jer 31:31,33 Eze 37:26 John 3:3,4 Gal 4:29 1Peter 1:23 1John 3:9, 4:7

First Use: Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. {Born the first time}

John 20:22 And when He (Jesus) had said this, He breathed on them (disciples) and saith unto them, Receive you the Holy Spirit. {Born Again, Born from Above}

 

Born again or Born from Above is an actual Spiritual event / occurrence. Jesus is literally breathing His Spirit of God into us, giving us new Spiritual life. The first people in the Bible to become Born Again were the people gathered together in the upper room on the day of Jesus resurrection from the dead. We celebrate this day and call it Easter, but the appropriate name for the celebration is Resurrection Sunday. On Resurrection Sunday, Jesus breathed / baptized the believing disciples making them Born Again new Spiritual creations and now Spiritual children of God.

 

John 20:19-23 Then the same (Resurrection) day at evening, being the first day (Sunday) of the week.. came Jesus and stood in the midst and said unto them (disciples), Peace be unto you... He (Jesus) breathed on them and saith unto them, Receive (by faith) you the Holy Spirit:

 

Matt 3:11 I (John the Baptist) indeed baptize you with water unto repentance (attitude change): but He (Jesus) that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He (Jesus) shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire: In Israel when the person who was to redeem a close relative refused to redeem that person, they signified their lack of desire to redeem by removing their shoe. John is saying that Jesus is mightier, that Jesus is the redeemer. John does not want to interfere (remove Jesus shoe) with the redemptive work Jesus came to do. Deut 25:7-9 Ruth 4:7,8. Also, only a close relative can be the redeemer. This is part of the Virgin birth of Jesus; if Jesus had an earthly father He would only be a close redeeming relative to a few people. Because Jesus is our creator (we are made in His image) and He has no earthly father, Jesus is the closest relative, to each human.

 

Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit by breathing on His disciples. It is very important to note that this baptism is not an experience baptism. Jesus said to the disciples receive the Holy Spirit. The Born Again experience is actually not an experience. We are saved by faith not by experience. By faith we receive the baptism (breath) of Jesus. There have been no changes in the church since the night Jesus stood in the midst of the disciples and breathed on them. We still become Born Again, Born from Above the same way the first disciples did, by acknowledging the resurrection of Jesus and by receiving by faith the Born Again baptism from Jesus. If the resurrected Jesus has not breathed on us as His disciple then we do not have the Holy Spirit and we are not yet born again, children of God.

 

Forty days after this event, the disciples were then baptized with fire and the Holy Spirit this is an experiential baptism. This baptism is the baptism that empowers the born again disciple to now be a Christian witness of Jesus. When Christians ask a person if they have experienced being born again, this is really what they are referring to. It is very possible to be born again but not to be empowered by the Holy Spirit as a witness. We become Born Again at our decision when we recognize that Jesus is our near relative redeemer, that we are dead without His life. The day that we recognize the resurrection (Life) of Jesus is the day that Jesus will Himself personally baptize us (Born Again) with His Holy Spirit of everlasting life. This is the Born Again baptism that we receive by faith. The baptism of fire is an experiential baptism. This baptism happens later in the life of the born again disciple. At Gods choosing, God will give us various experiences and empower us to be His witness. This experience baptism comes from seeking God. Jeremiah 29:13 And ye shall seek Me (God) and find Me (God), when ye shall search for Me with all your heart.


David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
From:  David (DavidABrown)    4/2/2002 5:51 pm  
To:  ALL   Poll (4 of 18)  
 
  361.4 in reply to 361.1  
 
Adoption - See also Born Again, Inheritance, & Predestination

Huiothesia (5206)  Huios - sons; Tithemi - to place, appoint, commit; to place as sons

Verses - Rom 8:15,23;9:4 Gal 4:5 Eph 1:5

First Use: Genesis 48:5-6 And now thy  (Josephs) two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I (Jacob) came unto thee into Egypt, are mine (adoption); as Reuben and Simeon (existing sons), they shall be mine. And the children, which thou begettest after them, shall be yours and shall be called after the name of their brethren in their inheritance.

 

Adoption Biblically is slightly different than what we think of as adoption. For instance a stranger is not adopted into the family of God, like the concept we have of adoption where a non-family member becomes a family member through adoption. The Biblical concept of adoption is confirmation of adulthood of an existing family member and with adulthood comes privileges and inheritance. In the Bible Jacob actually adopted his two grandchildren Ephraim and Manasseh. Jacob did not need to adopt them to make them family but he did need to adopt them to give them an inheritance in the promise land. Indeed Ephraim and Manasseh did receive inheritances in the promise land just like their uncles did, because they were adopted as sons and received the same inheritance as their uncles the sons of Jacob. 

 

We are born into the family of God, through faith in the resurrection of Jesus in the new covenant. Jesus spoke to Nicodemus and told him that he must be Born Again in order to see the kingdom of God, [in Jesus the kingdom of God is now available] so the first step to becoming a member in the family of God is to be born into it as a child of God and that is done by the person accepting the covenant of God that we are His creation separated by our sin and that He loves us and died for our sins to resurrect from death to reconcile us to Him. When we accept the New Covenant we are now in a correct relationship with God, we acknowledge that God exists and that we desire to have a relationship with Him. We have asked for forgiveness of our sins, we are now cleansed from our sin, we are now clean and God in Spirit has come inside of us giving us a new life, a new birth into His family as a child of God.

 

Once we are a born again child of God we are then predestined (appointed outcome) to the adoption. The actual adoption takes place later, when we physically die and our spirit and soul enter the visible presence of God where we are then adopted as sons of God and being sons of God we then receive an inheritance in heaven (visible presence of God).

 

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to whit, the redemption of our body.



David A. Brown
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From:  Optic Threshold (monoreg)   4/10/2002 9:52 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)     
 
    
 
Monergism vs. Synergism 
- - - - - - - - - - - - 
John Hendryx 

My aim in this short article is to show from Scripture that faith is the result of regeneration, not the cause of it. A corresponding aim is to show that the opposite view is unscriptural and harmful to our understanding of the Gospel. Monergism and synergism are terms that may or may not be familiar to you but are of immense importance to evangelicals if we hope to maintain fidelity to the Scriptures as we enter the new millennium. These words describe two very distinct views of God's saving grace - the process wherein God changes a person from "dead in sin" to "alive in Christ." If you don't remember the words, at least try to remember the concept. 

In order to be clear, let's define these terms. Synergism comes from two Greek words meaning "to work together with." So when speaking of salvation it refers to a cooperation between God and man. In other words, man works together with God to effect his salvation. To be fair I should point out that there are two strains of this teaching; the Semi-Pelagian form which teaches that man takes the initiative and then is helped by divine grace. And then there is the more prevalent form among evangelicals which teaches that God, the Holy Spirit, takes the first step (toward all members of the human race) but cannot effect the completion of the work of regeneration without the cooperation and consent of the sinner. In both cases it is taught that faith is not a pure gift of God but rather something which the person himself must produce or contribute in order for God to "choose" him. God gives enough grace for everyone to see but the final decision still rests with each person. Unregenerate man, in this scheme, is left with the freewill and ability to believe or reject God. 

The Century Dictionary defines synergism as 

"...the doctrine that there are two efficient agents in regeneration, namely the human will and the divine Spirit, which, in the strict sense of the term, cooperate. This theory accordingly holds that the soul has not lost in the fall all inclination toward holiness, nor all power to seek for it under the influence of ordinary motives." 

In contrast, historic Christianity, as best explained by Augustine and the Reformers, would reject the above position and honor the more biblical position of monergism. This position teaches that salvation is entirely a work of God; That man can contribute nothing to his salvation and that one is saved wholly and unconditionally by grace through faith. That faith itself is a gift of God (Eph 2:8, John 1:13, 2 Tim 2:25, Phil 1:29, Hebrews 12:2, 1 John 5:1, Rom 3:24, Ezekiel 11:19-20; Ezekiel 36:26-27) which is a witness of God's regenerative grace working in the inner man. This gracious act of God was based on nothing meritorious in the individual, but rather, entirely on God's sovereign good pleasure (Eph 1:5). It was not because God knew which persons would believe of their own free will, for there are no persons which fit that description. This is because apart from grace their is no delight or inclination to seek God (in man's unregenerate nature). And since those dead in sin will not seek God (ROM 3:11), regeneration must precede faith for man to have new desires and a changed disposition. God must, in effect, raise them from the dead- (see Eph 2:5, Col 2:13). 

Monergistic regeneration is God's merciful response to the consequences of our fall in Adam which has resulted in natural man's moral inability. We must be clear that it does not apply to the entire process of salvation, but only to the first step of a person coming to faith in Christ. It is only in God's power to bring to life a person who is spiritually dead. This means that a mans soul is utterly passive until it has been regenerated. But when regenerated the disposition of his heart is changed. He willingly turns to embrace the Savior since his hatred of God has been transformed to a love for Him (Ezekiel 11:19-20). In other words, God doesn't do the believing for us but empowers us by the Holy Spirit to delightfully respond in faith and obedience. Man will not and cannot offer any help in renewing himself spiritually without this grace. 

Fallen man indeed has a "freewill" to act according to his nature, that is, to choose evil, but is wholly incapable and unwilling to choose God on his own because he is dead in sin, loves the darkness and "cannot understand" the things of God because "they are spiritually appraised." (1 Cor 2:14, ROM 8:7, John 3:19). And since mankind is spiritually impotent and unable to choose between good and evil his "freewill" is bound, which really amounts to no freedom at all. Man will always choose what he desires most, and without regenerative grace there is no desire for God. So, while we were yet in active rebellion against God (so it would have been completely just of God to pour His wrath on us), yet, taking pity on us, He was still willing to show his great love and affection toward us by bearing the punishment and wrath we deserved and then apply the benefits of the atonement on His elect; those He had given His Son from eternity (John 17:9). J.I Packer said, "It is staggering that God should love sinners, yet it is true. God loves creatures that have become unlovely and (one would have thought) unlovable. There was nothing whatever in the objects of his love to call it forth; nothing in us could attract or prompt it. Love among persons is awakened by something in the beloved, but the love of God is free, spontaneous, unevoked, uncaused. God loves people because he has chosen to love them ... and no reason for his love can be given except his own sovereign good pleasure. - (from Knowing God p.124) So, here we clearly see that faith is not the cause of God's choosing us, but the result of it. Justification, of course, is the result of faith, but faith is inevitable result of God's efficacious and regenerative grace. 

Again, the Century Dictionary's definition of monergism is worth noting: 

"In theol., The doctrine that the Holy Spirit is the only efficient agent in regeneration - that the human will possesses no inclination to holiness until regenerated, and therefore cannot cooperate in regeneration." 

Now, if we look at the practical implications of the teaching of Synergism, it still leaves room for man's pride. If faith is something we contribute then we still have something to boast of. It is clear that belief is not meritorious, since only Christ's finished work can make that claim so faith is merely the inevitable response that follows the regenerative and irresistible call of the Holy Spirit. Faith is a gift from God which strips man of his pride in that he has nothing but empty hands to receive God's salvation. God's sovereignty in the giving of salvation to whom He pleases gives all glory to Him alone (Eph 1:5) and leaves man nothing to boast of whatsoever. 

I say this often but I think it is worth repeating: in order to make sense of this doctrine we must first understand what exactly the condition of fallen man is. At the fall we incurred the penalty of spiritual and physical death and we deservedly became subject to the wrath of God. The effects of sin on our will and persons made us inherently and totally corrupt, utterly incapable of choosing or doing that which is acceptable to God. With no recuperative powers to enable him to recover himself, man is hopelessly lost in sin. Man's salvation is thereby wholly dependent God's mercy and grace through the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus Christ (and the regenerative work of the Holy Spirit) alone (Gen. 2:16-17; 3:1-19; John 3:36; ROM 1:18; 3:23; 6:23; 1 Cor. 2:14; Eph. 2:1-3; 1 John 1:8). The theologians call it total depravity for a reason; not because man is as bad as he could be but because his unwillingness and inability to come to God, apart from grace, is total. 

I know that Some reading this may still have a hard time with the idea that regeneration precedes faith but this is the biblical teaching. At first, many people might fight against this idea because it goes against everything they have ever been taught at their church. But I would challenge you to question your presuppositions. Carefully and prayerfully read the Scripture references I have given you because this is important. Remember that the affects of the fall on the mind and will rendered mankind wholly incapable and unwilling to come to God, where we would always reject Him if left to our own unregenerate nature. Being spiritually dead, the Scripture teaches that it is impossible for man to respond, no matter how attractive God is (1 Cor 2:14). Man's nature and disposition must first be changed (made alive Eph 2:5, born again John 3:3). To say that we would ever come to God by our own choice without God first making this effectual is to underestimate the depth and totality of man's fall. We were spiritually dead. Dead men will not respond to pleading and reasoning alone (Rom 8:7) but only when coupled with the effectual call of Jesus who raises him spiritually, as He did the physical Lazarus. Yes, we must command man to repent and believe and we thus proclaim the Gospel to him, but God has to enable and efficaciously draw him through our preaching if he is to come willingly (John 6:37, John 6:44, John 6:64,65 Ezekiel 11:19-20). 

Our honor as believers is to preach Christ crucified and watch God do the work in regenerating a persons soul through the quickening of the Holy Spirit. It is God alone that regenerates the dead or fallen spirit of His elect as we proclaim His word. He awakens poor sinners to a life of faith that they will see that Jesus, not in part, but in whole, has taken our sin upon Himself on the tree. His finished redemptive work is sufficient to put away our sins for all time. This is why world missions are so critical since the unregenerate can only come to Christ by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:13-15). God works concurrently with His church through prayers and proclaiming His word to bring home His elect from every "tribe and language and people and nation."(Rev 5:8) 

I hope this leads people to see that the biblical case for monergism is overwhelming, a constant theme that seasons the entire Bible. Synergism appears to be a system of theology that is forced awkwardly on the Scriptures - trying to read into the Word a hermeneutic governed by a theological predisposition that is most likely the result of man's unending desire to contribute something to his own salvation. Synergists would be hard pressed to find real biblical evidence to back their position. I must emphasize, however, that I know many sincere brothers & sisters that hold to the synergistic position. My prayer is that all the Lord's people would go back to the Scriptures to earnestly seek God's will in this crucial matter. 

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life... Therefore have I told you that no man can come to me, unless it be given to him by my Father." John 6:63,65 


------------------------------------ 
Comments by John Piper 
Some do come to the light. But listen to what John 3:20-21 says about them. "Every one who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does what is true comes to the light, that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been wrought in God." 

Yes there are those who come to the light -- namely those whose deeds are the work of God. "Wrought in God" means worked by God. Apart from this gracious work of God all men hate the light of God and will not come to him lest their evil be exposed -- this is total rebellion. "No one seeks for God...There is no fear of God before their eyes!" 

[Re: 1 John 5:1 
In the New Testament God is clearly active, creating a people for himself by calling them out of darkness and enabling them to believe the gospel and walk in the light. John teaches most clearly that regeneration precedes and enables faith. "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God" ...The verb tense make's john's intention unmistakable: Every one who goes on believing [present, continuous action] that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God [perfect, completed action with abiding effects]. " Faith is the evidence of new birth, not the cause of it. This is consistent with john's whole book (cf. 1 John 2:29, 3:9, 4:2-3, 4:7). ] 

-------------------------------- 

ENDNOTES 

Regeneration is a supernatural quickening work of the Holy Spirit by which the divine life is given (John 3:3-8; Titus 3:5). It is an instantaneous, monergistic, divine work which accomplished entirely by the Holy Spirit through the preaching of the Word of God (Rom 10:13-15; John 5:24; James 1:18). In regeneration, the sinner is efficaciously empowered by the Holy Spirit to respond in faith to the divine provision of salvation. 

Click here to read Honest Answers for Common Objections to Monergistic Regeneration 
http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/questions/critical_mono.html 

May the Shalom and Joy of the Lord be on you all 
John Hendryx
 
From:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   4/10/2002 1:14 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (6 of 18)  
 
  361.6 in reply to 361.4  
 
Hi Dave,,, 

Well thought out and written posting on salvation. Always appreciate your wanting to bring scripture to light on our everyday living experiences. 

Take care and blessings, 
Linda 
 
  
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  From:  cajunhillbilly (Willard01)   4/15/2002 7:15 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (7 of 18)  
 
  361.7 in reply to 361.1  
 
Both are correct 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    4/15/2002 2:59 pm  
To:  cajunhillbilly (Willard01)   Poll (8 of 18)  
 
  361.8 in reply to 361.7  
 
Hi

 

I enjoy very much your postings on the forum but lets talk about the differences between Birth and Adoption.

 

Both being Spiritually Born Born Again and being Adopted by God are both Important but they are not two ways to enter the family of God.

 

To become Born Again is to become a child of God as we are now in the Spiritual Image of God our Father, we did not become a god but we did became capable of communicating and interacting with Him.

 

In Genesis 48:5 Jacob Adopts the two children of his son Joseph. Jacob did not need to adopt them to make them family members, they were already in his family they were his grandchildren. But Jacob did need to adopt them in order to give them an inheritance in the Promise Land, which they did both received by getting equal portions in the Promise Land with the other inheritors. Had the two sons never been born into the family then they could have never been adopted to receive an inheritance, no birth, no adoption.

 

To say that adoption is all that is needed to become a child of God is like saying that we were already in the sinless image of God and that Jesus didnt need to go to the Cross and die for our sins he only needed to adopt us and pretend that we are without sin.

 

Being born into the family of God is to receive the Spirit of God within our own spirit, to be Adopted is to Receive an Inheritance consisting of, a new Spiritual body, a place to live in heaven and things to do in heaven these come later but they only come to those who are already members of Gods family.

 

Our adoption/inheritance is yet future. If adoption is how we became children of God then we would not become children of God until after we died and entered into our Inheritance with God in Heaven. We are currently Born Again and therefore we are now currently children of God and we dont have to wait until Heaven to interact with God we can do it right now.

 

Thanks again for your postings,

God Bless You,

Your brother in Jesus,

David

 



David A. Brown
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  From:  Strings17   4/15/2002 3:53 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (9 of 18)  
 
  361.9 in reply to 361.8  
 
I beleive we enter the kingdom of God based on the work of christ on the cross and the torment of our own soul living in these earthen vessels in a fallen world. 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    4/15/2002 5:53 pm  
To:  Strings17   Poll (10 of 18)  
 
  361.10 in reply to 361.9  
 
Hi,

 

Thats interesting.

 

What Bible verse are you considering with the thought that a tormented soul accounts for redemption and salvation?

 

Or did you just use the word torment for extra emphasis?

 

God Bless You,

David



David A. Brown
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  From:  Strings17   4/15/2002 6:10 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (11 of 18)  
 
  361.11 in reply to 361.10  
 
Working out our salvation with "fear and trembling" comes to mind along with the"narrow" way that leads to eternal life and picking up your "cross" and following Jesus.I am perfectly willing to be wrong in my understanding of these passages but they dont sound easy and breezy to me and at times can be tormenting. 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    4/15/2002 6:21 pm  
To:  Strings17   Poll (12 of 18)  
 
  361.12 in reply to 361.11  
 
I agree that life can be difficult and it can be overwhelming then I always try to remember that God is for me and me not against me and that He proved this to me by His going to the cross for me.

 

Romans 8:31-39 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how  shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers,  nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love  of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

All Gods Best to you!

David



David A. Brown
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  From:  Strings17   4/15/2002 6:33 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (13 of 18)  
 
  361.13 in reply to 361.12  
 
Thanks David,im not realy a pessimist about life but when i read about Jesus and his times of suffering and the fact that he did not hide it from others it gives me comfort to know that expeirencing or admiting to pain is not a sin, as a matter of fact its a sign to me of struggle within myself which means thatJesus has not given up on me. 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    4/15/2002 6:49 pm  
To:  Strings17   Poll (14 of 18)  
 
  361.14 in reply to 361.13  
 
Thats true, good point!

 

Also, everyone Christian struggles and I think that Satan loves to try to trick us into struggling more than we should in our relationship with God.

 

I have been noticing in the Psalms lately how King David usually offers up Praise, Joy and Rejoicing up to God as an acceptable offering to God and it does seem like God is well pleased when we are trusting in Him enough to be at ease and at rest even joyful.

 

God Bless You,

David



David A. Brown
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  From:  cajunhillbilly (Willard01)   4/16/2002 5:31 am  
To:  Strings17   Poll (15 of 18)  
 
  361.15 in reply to 361.9  
 
I beleive we enter the kingdom of God based on the work of christ on the cross and the torment of our own soul living in these earthen vessels in a fallen world. 
I disagree. We enter the kingdom of God based on the work of Christ ALONE received by grace ALONE through faith in the doing and dieing of Christ. We cannot add to the completed work of Christ. Of course we have to appropriate that work through faith and working out our salvation with fear and trembling, as you said. But the basis of salvation is Christ ALONE.
 
  
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  From:  Passion (PQ) (PassionQuest)    4/19/2002 11:43 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (16 of 18)  
 
  361.16 in reply to 361.14  
 
<<Also, everyone Christian struggles and I think that Satan loves to try to trick us into struggling more than we should in our relationship with God>>

I think we trick ourselves many times and give way too much credit to Satan.  Satan does not have all that much power when you consider that we, who accept Jesus Christ as our savior, are a child of God and He has won the victory already.  I think most of our struggle is right between our ears.

Also, on salvation .... we ARE saved, we are BEING saved and we WILL be saved ... sometimes that is a very confusing concept for people.

 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    4/19/2002 3:58 pm  
To:  Passion (PQ) (PassionQuest)    Poll (17 of 18)  
 
  361.17 in reply to 361.16  
 
Hi Passionquest,

 

Welcome! 

 

Superb Posting.

 

It appears that we have another Theologian on the forum :o).

 

I totally agree with everything that you said.

 

Satan is over rated.

 

It also seems to me that the Sanctification process is among the most difficult concepts for a Christian to grasp and once it is understood the whole Christian walk becomes much more meaningful and more productive.

 

When we are united with God its called Redemption and it happens 1 time to us Spiritually and later 1 time physically. Later after we die our body will be redeemed  (brought into the perceivable presence of God) and we will receive a new Spiritual body just like the body Jesus has since His Resurrection.

 

The Redemption is a one time event, we were redeemed by the cross/death of Jesus as our sins died with Jesus. But we are now Sanctified by the Resurrection of Jesus and His life. The Sanctification process is a continual day by day moment by moment event in our life and this is where so many Christians are missing out. Being Redeemed and becoming a Christian is only the beginning now we have a lifetime relationship with God. Heaven is right now in the hearts, minds, souls and Spirit of every Christian. Heaven is not something that we enter into, only after we die here on earth. To wait for heaven is to miss out on Christianity.

 

God Bless you,

David



David A. Brown
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   From:  TOMMY9691   5/15/2002 8:43 pm  
To:  Passion (PQ) (PassionQuest)    Poll (18 of 18)  
 
  361.18 in reply to 361.16  
 

Yes - Satan is a punk, and the sooner we realize it the better off we will all be. 
God will give to each person according to what he has done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger." (Romans 2: 6-8) 


Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Mat 7: 21) 

Who can listen to the message of salvation which requires us to live holy lives. Are we to believe that by saying Lord, Lord, we will be guaranteed entry into the kingdom of Heaven? 

Faith without works is dead! 

Blessings, 

Tommy 

 
  
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